The Talk

Aug. 4th, 2008 11:59 am
kukla_red: (Morning Glory)
So, we finally had The Talk.  The one I've been wanting to have for some months now but couldn't manage to start.  The one that made me start to tear up just by bringing the subject up.

Marriage.

I want to get married.  He knows this.  He has known it, but hadn't really said anything about it which is typical of him.  I usually have to pry things out of him.  He's working on communicating better.

So, marriage.  We were talking about his ex and my ex and our respective disastrous past attempts at marriage.  I asked him "How do you feel about marriage now?"  And he said he was in favor of it.  And I, stupidly, said "Just not with me."  And he said "No, I didn't say that."

Basically he wants to get all his past financial ghosts in order before we get married because otherwise they could come after me and garnish my wages or something like that.  I respect that - we've both got bad financial past histories and we're both working very hard to clean everything up and get our respective credit reports/histories, etc. nice and clean and healthy. 

He asked me why I want to get married.  I said that there were several reasons:

1. I want the legal protection for both of us.  We're both over 50.  I want to know that if something should happen to either of us that we don't run into legal issues at hospitals, etc. because we're not actually married.  And I sure as hell don't want to be in a position where I have to call his mother because I'm not technically next of kin.  Ugh.

Right now I work for a rather enlightened firm that allows me to carry him on my health insurance even though we aren't married.  But I want to be able to change jobs in the future and not have to worry about that, especially since he wants to go freelance soon and won't have the option of having his own insurance.

2. I want him to feel secure - heck, I want that for both of us.  We've both been hurt, stomped on, trashed so much in the past by our various exes that I want us to feel that we are fully in this together with all that implies.  I know that marriage is no guarantee of anything - we both are living examples of that - but I'd like both of us to feel that we have stood before friends and family and the state of New York (or Vermont) and made it public.  That might sound silly, but I know what I mean even if I am not quite articulate about it at the moment.  I know he worries that if we have an argument he'll find his stuff out on the front lawn.  I would never do that, but he still doesn't feel secure.

3. No one has ever made me feel as whole, as complete, as much "me" as he has.  He has made my life immeasurably better and I know that I have done the same for him.  That is a commitment I want to honor and cherish and yes, being married is how I want us to express that.  I have never loved someone as much or in the way I love him and I know that he feels the same.  It's pretty powerful.

After I said all that, we both cried a little and smiled a lot.  And then we kissed in the parking lot for a while.

It's amazing the conversations you can have at diners.

And if [personal profile] cuervolinda is reading this, this conversation took place at the Sunrise Diner on Sunrise Highway, one of her favorite LI eateries.

The Talk

Aug. 4th, 2008 11:59 am
kukla_red: (Default)
So, we finally had The Talk.  The one I've been wanting to have for some months now but couldn't manage to start.  The one that made me start to tear up just by bringing the subject up.

Marriage.

I want to get married.  He knows this.  He has known it, but hadn't really said anything about it which is typical of him.  I usually have to pry things out of him.  He's working on communicating better.

So, marriage.  We were talking about his ex and my ex and our respective disastrous past attempts at marriage.  I asked him "How do you feel about marriage now?"  And he said he was in favor of it.  And I, stupidly, said "Just not with me."  And he said "No, I didn't say that."

Basically he wants to get all his past financial ghosts in order before we get married because otherwise they could come after me and garnish my wages or something like that.  I respect that - we've both got bad financial past histories and we're both working very hard to clean everything up and get our respective credit reports/histories, etc. nice and clean and healthy. 

He asked me why I want to get married.  I said that there were several reasons:

1. I want the legal protection for both of us.  We're both over 50.  I want to know that if something should happen to either of us that we don't run into legal issues at hospitals, etc. because we're not actually married.  And I sure as hell don't want to be in a position where I have to call his mother because I'm not technically next of kin.  Ugh.

Right now I work for a rather enlightened firm that allows me to carry him on my health insurance even though we aren't married.  But I want to be able to change jobs in the future and not have to worry about that, especially since he wants to go freelance soon and won't have the option of having his own insurance.

2. I want him to feel secure - heck, I want that for both of us.  We've both been hurt, stomped on, trashed so much in the past by our various exes that I want us to feel that we are fully in this together with all that implies.  I know that marriage is no guarantee of anything - we both are living examples of that - but I'd like both of us to feel that we have stood before friends and family and the state of New York (or Vermont) and made it public.  That might sound silly, but I know what I mean even if I am not quite articulate about it at the moment.  I know he worries that if we have an argument he'll find his stuff out on the front lawn.  I would never do that, but he still doesn't feel secure.

3. No one has ever made me feel as whole, as complete, as much "me" as he has.  He has made my life immeasurably better and I know that I have done the same for him.  That is a commitment I want to honor and cherish and yes, being married is how I want us to express that.  I have never loved someone as much or in the way I love him and I know that he feels the same.  It's pretty powerful.

After I said all that, we both cried a little and smiled a lot.  And then we kissed in the parking lot for a while.

It's amazing the conversations you can have at diners.

And if [personal profile] cuervolinda is reading this, this conversation took place at the Sunrise Diner on Sunrise Highway, one of her favorite LI eateries.
kukla_red: (My Trees)
42-17155971 - Girl Covering Her Eyes in CornerKeeping everything inside is something I am way too good at.  I am an excellent secret keeper.  I would never have betrayed James and Lily.  

To be fair to myself, I have a very long history of using this as a technique for self-preservation.  Growing up in a house with 2 amazing yet very self-centered parents and a black sheep for a brother who sucked up all the attention in the house like a black hole I learned pretty early on not to make a fuss, not to talk about how I felt, what I needed or if I was hurt by something.  That just didn't fly in my house - no one cared, no one paid the slightest bit of attention to me.  I'm not trying to whine here, just stating facts.  This of course laid the groundwork for my future romantic relationships.  I have no clue how to let someone know what I want - I don't even feel comfortable letting my feelings be known because it is so ingrained in me to keep quiet.  Needless to say, my early relationships including my defunct marriage are not sterling examples of balance.  However, I have learned a few things over the years and with the support of my friends and lots of therapy I am very slowly making baby steps towards expressing myself without feeling like I am being a self-centered bitch if I do.

David has been pretty patient through this whole transformation.  It is very hard to learn this stuff and I've had a few fits and starts while I get the hang of it.  There was so much yelling in my house when I was a kid that it has made me paranoid about yelling and yet, paradoxically, too good at fighting.  I'm trying to ditch that too.  I was also subject to so much abuse in my marriage that sometimes I walk away too quickly.  I'm so determined not to be treated like that again that I think I over-react at times.  Balance is what I strive for.  I'm getting closer.

So I mentioned the M word last night with David and he didn't run for the hills.  This is a man who used to be reluctant to commit to coming over next weekend even though he spent virtually every weekend at my place from the day we met.  Last night he asked me where I thought we'd be in 3 years, on our 5 year anniversary.  I said "Vermont" but what I was thinking was "married".  I actually did say that later on.  That in 3 years, hopefully sooner, I hope we will be married.  He seemed OK with that.  Of course, yesterday was our anniversary, it was late, we were coming home from a Mets game and the trains were screwed up so it is possible he would have said OK to almost anything. 

But that would be the unbalanced side of me talking.  The balanced side of me thinks that I won't still be calling him my boyfriend when we are in our 60's.
kukla_red: (Default)
42-17155971 - Girl Covering Her Eyes in CornerKeeping everything inside is something I am way too good at.  I am an excellent secret keeper.  I would never have betrayed James and Lily.  

To be fair to myself, I have a very long history of using this as a technique for self-preservation.  Growing up in a house with 2 amazing yet very self-centered parents and a black sheep for a brother who sucked up all the attention in the house like a black hole I learned pretty early on not to make a fuss, not to talk about how I felt, what I needed or if I was hurt by something.  That just didn't fly in my house - no one cared, no one paid the slightest bit of attention to me.  I'm not trying to whine here, just stating facts.  This of course laid the groundwork for my future romantic relationships.  I have no clue how to let someone know what I want - I don't even feel comfortable letting my feelings be known because it is so ingrained in me to keep quiet.  Needless to say, my early relationships including my defunct marriage are not sterling examples of balance.  However, I have learned a few things over the years and with the support of my friends and lots of therapy I am very slowly making baby steps towards expressing myself without feeling like I am being a self-centered bitch if I do.

David has been pretty patient through this whole transformation.  It is very hard to learn this stuff and I've had a few fits and starts while I get the hang of it.  There was so much yelling in my house when I was a kid that it has made me paranoid about yelling and yet, paradoxically, too good at fighting.  I'm trying to ditch that too.  I was also subject to so much abuse in my marriage that sometimes I walk away too quickly.  I'm so determined not to be treated like that again that I think I over-react at times.  Balance is what I strive for.  I'm getting closer.

So I mentioned the M word last night with David and he didn't run for the hills.  This is a man who used to be reluctant to commit to coming over next weekend even though he spent virtually every weekend at my place from the day we met.  Last night he asked me where I thought we'd be in 3 years, on our 5 year anniversary.  I said "Vermont" but what I was thinking was "married".  I actually did say that later on.  That in 3 years, hopefully sooner, I hope we will be married.  He seemed OK with that.  Of course, yesterday was our anniversary, it was late, we were coming home from a Mets game and the trains were screwed up so it is possible he would have said OK to almost anything. 

But that would be the unbalanced side of me talking.  The balanced side of me thinks that I won't still be calling him my boyfriend when we are in our 60's.
kukla_red: (Angel)
And I'm an engaged person because of my involvement in Freecycle(TM) - I run my county's group.  He says he is very proud of me - that I "walk the walk" and devote a considerable amount of my time to this.  Which is all great and I'm glad that he is proud of me and all that jazz.

However, and this is where things get sticky, what I'd like to be is an engaged person - as in, engaged to be married.  There.  I said it.  For the first time out loud in print.  After my divorce I never thought I would want to get married again, ever.  In fact I loudly declaimed this fact to all and sundry.  No way, not conceivable.  I figured I would date, maybe even have a LTR again but marriage?  Not a chance.  19 years of misery was quite enough, thank you.

Fast forward a couple of years and I meet David.  Sort of blew all of that other nonsense out of the water.  It's been 2 years now and I am more in love with him than ever and yes, I guess I am just conventional enough to want to get married.  To stand in front of family and friends and make a statement that we are committed to each other.  I know, so old-fashioned right?  So silly. 

But... there it is.  I've never felt like this before.  I didn't feel this strongly about marrying my ex.  I never felt this way about him and getting married was more his idea than mine.  It's different this time.  I want David to know that this is real, that he can feel safe with me and with us.  I want my children to see what a good marriage is like - that we are in this for the long haul and that this is how you show devotion to each other.  

Or something like that.

It isn't that I want the white dress, fancy party thing.  I never wanted that when I was a kid when so many young girls supposedly day dream about that stuff.  Besides, I had that already and I didn't really like it.  If we get married a nice party is all I want.  In the Autumn in Vermont, if possible.  

I know David is a bit hung up on the whole thing about his financial situation being crummy and that probably factors into it.  Heck, I'm not even sure how he feels about the possibility of getting married - to me or anyone.  He's had more serious relationships post-divorce than I have; well, he's also been divorced much longer than I have.  He never married any of the other women, why would I think he would marry me?  I dunno.  But I know I want him to.

I just wish I could talk to him about this.  But I feel way too scared to bring it up.  So I won't.  At least I can let it out here.
kukla_red: (Default)
And I'm an engaged person because of my involvement in Freecycle(TM) - I run my county's group.  He says he is very proud of me - that I "walk the walk" and devote a considerable amount of my time to this.  Which is all great and I'm glad that he is proud of me and all that jazz.

However, and this is where things get sticky, what I'd like to be is an engaged person - as in, engaged to be married.  There.  I said it.  For the first time out loud in print.  After my divorce I never thought I would want to get married again, ever.  In fact I loudly declaimed this fact to all and sundry.  No way, not conceivable.  I figured I would date, maybe even have a LTR again but marriage?  Not a chance.  19 years of misery was quite enough, thank you.

Fast forward a couple of years and I meet David.  Sort of blew all of that other nonsense out of the water.  It's been 2 years now and I am more in love with him than ever and yes, I guess I am just conventional enough to want to get married.  To stand in front of family and friends and make a statement that we are committed to each other.  I know, so old-fashioned right?  So silly. 

But... there it is.  I've never felt like this before.  I didn't feel this strongly about marrying my ex.  I never felt this way about him and getting married was more his idea than mine.  It's different this time.  I want David to know that this is real, that he can feel safe with me and with us.  I want my children to see what a good marriage is like - that we are in this for the long haul and that this is how you show devotion to each other.  

Or something like that.

It isn't that I want the white dress, fancy party thing.  I never wanted that when I was a kid when so many young girls supposedly day dream about that stuff.  Besides, I had that already and I didn't really like it.  If we get married a nice party is all I want.  In the Autumn in Vermont, if possible.  

I know David is a bit hung up on the whole thing about his financial situation being crummy and that probably factors into it.  Heck, I'm not even sure how he feels about the possibility of getting married - to me or anyone.  He's had more serious relationships post-divorce than I have; well, he's also been divorced much longer than I have.  He never married any of the other women, why would I think he would marry me?  I dunno.  But I know I want him to.

I just wish I could talk to him about this.  But I feel way too scared to bring it up.  So I won't.  At least I can let it out here.

Profile

kukla_red: (Default)
kukla_red

June 2017

S M T W T F S
    12 3
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 

Syndicate

RSS Atom

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jul. 27th, 2017 12:31 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios